Praying for peoples salvation?

[seeingboyblake]

Hi all, now is it biblickle to pray for someones salvation? Now i mean it lke this, if i pray "Lord please touch them, touch that heart, show mercy in Jesus name" Is that right to pray that for them when we are the ones that is suposed to share the truth of the gospel with them and show mercy to them? So can you pray for someones salvation? And how would you war for that? Thanks.

[kbehrent]

Praying for someones salvation is not the Bible way. Praying for workers and people of the Gospel to come across their path and preach to them the Word and the Gospel would be more like it. The awareness and conviction of there being a God is already in them. An unsaved person does not know why they have the yearning in their being for a God. Praying that someone will cross their path to show them the Way the Truth and the Life and explain to them the way of salvation would be God's way. He wants us to pray for each other and to preach the kingdom of heaven is at hand.
The authority of preaching the Gospel has been given to mankind. Angels do not even preach the Gospel, but are ministering to mankind in other ways.
We can pray in our prayer closet for years for a certain person to be saved, and they wont be saved. when we pray for someone to minister the Gospel to the person, or we go and minister the Gospel personally, then the person has a good chance to be saved.

[tomas555]

Kenneth Hagin wrote this in The Believer's Authority:

We are the Body of Christ. Even though we have prayed, "Now, Lord, You do this and that," leaving everything up to Him, He has conferred His authority on the earth to His Body, the Church. Thus, many problems exist because we permit them to—we're not doing anything about them. We're the ones who are supposed to do something about them, but we're trying to get someone else, including God, to do something about them.
This became real to me years ago when I was studying along this line. I couldn't explain it in my mind, but I knew it in my spirit. I began to understand this authority we have. While praying for my older brother's salvation, I heard the Lord, in my spirit, challenge me. He said, "You do something about it!"
I had been praying for my brother's salvation for many years. He was what you would call the "black sheep" of the family. In spite of my prayers, he seemed to get worse instead of better.
I always had prayed, "God save him." I'd even fasted. I was prone to slip back into praying this way, but after the Lord challenged me to do something about it—after He told me I had the authority—I said, "In the Name of Jesus, I break the power of the devil over my brother's life, and I claim his salvation!"
I gave the order. I didn't keep saying it or praying it. When a king gives an order, he knows it's going to be carried out.
The devil tried to tell me my brother never would be saved, but I shut my mind off and started laughing. I said, "I don't think he'll be saved—I know it! I took the Name of Jesus and broke your power over him and claimed his deliverance and salvation." I went my way whistling. Within ten days, my brother was saved. The Word works!

[BradSBer]

This is one of the times where we can pray for something and not even have to use our faith!

We know for a fact that it is God's will for anyone to be saved,
2 Peter 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

1 John 5:14-15
(14) And this is the confidence that we have in him, that, if we ask any thing according to his will, he heareth us:
(15) And if we know that he hear us, whatsoever we ask, we know that we have the petitions that we desired of him.


So here is the scripture for it -

1) It is God's will
2) If we pray according to His will, we have it -

Other prayer verses need not be consulted - if we have our answer here.
We don't even have to use our own faith, like "move mountains if you believe" - we don't even have to believe ourselves - we just pray HIS will!

Human ideas and explanations don't need to be consulted if you choose to have faith in these words of God.

Here's some lines that are Biblical and will work -

"God bless them with the light and life of the Gospel"
"Let the gospel be presented to them, their family, and everyone they know"
"(their name here), come to the family of God"
"Lord let their TV gets stuck on a gospel channel when their is scripture being read, but let it be supernaturally muted if they talk some garbage...!"

[BarbaraP]

Right on, Brad! What words do people have a hard time believing in the Bible? All, nothing, every, whosoever.... LOL

We can pray for laborers to come across their path, but God is not limited by that whatsoever! (Sorry, I know it is a teaching of another popular minister, but it is not accurate.)

Brad has shown a couple of scriptures that speak for themselves. I've also personally met several people (and seen DVDs of many others) who gave their lives to the Lord because Jesus appeared to them either in a dream or a vision.

One Muslim lady I went to church with had Jesus walk through the wall of her apartment and talk to her. She had NEVER heard anything about Jesus before. It wasn't until much later that she ever even met a Christian. Who knows who was praying for her? There sure weren't any laborers that came across her path to sow the Word.

The husband of another woman I know gave his life to the Lord because God gave him a very personal meaningful dream.

A dear friend and one of my spiritual dad's was in a heathen rock band and while he was meditating (not in the good way) God appeared to him. He said, "What you are doing is wrong. Turn and follow me." He gave his life to Jesus and has never looked back.

Intellectual reasoning of man (even men who love God) can make many things sound logical or even scriptural, but there is a way that seems right a man that leads to death.

We must be sure that traditions (or explanations) of man do not make the Word of God impotent in our lives. And, yes, do pray for their salvation while sowing the Word and asking for laborers, but don't put limits on God. Praying for salvation does not go against "laws of faith." LOL

[kbehrent]

I pray for the whole world to be saved. Receive now. I ask this of the Father.

I don't believe this works. Yes,It is God's Will that none should perish, but there shall be a great number of people who shall perish. (God, I wonder what He looked like.) Jesus is a Laborer, although He is suposed to be seated at the Right Hand of the Father at this time. The person praying for Jesus to appear would understand that a person cannot directly be saved by a persons desire for them to be saved, or asking the Father for their salvation. There still has to be a conscious decision by an individual person to confess Jesus and believe in the resurrection. My prayer and desire to have my brother saved in not going to result in my brother being saved. I can get on my knees and pray and wear out a dozen pair of pants, and he will still not be saved just because I want him to be saved, or because I am praying for him to be saved.
Not until the person decides to confess Jesus as Lord and believes that He was raised from the dead shall they receive the gift of salvation. Just how that gospel preaching is brought to a person is up to an individuals imagination. We can't claim another person's salvation or I would be claiming salvation for the all people of the entire world.
If I run the devil off from someones life I had better be making sure there is some Word fed into his life, or that devil that was run off will come back with 7 more devils worse than the first devil. Also,the person who had the devil may like that devil and invite it back in. I cannot claim something, and override another persons will. We do not have dominion over another person.

Act 16:31
And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.

This does not mean that a person who is saved has their entire family saved with them at the same time. Each person has to confess Jesus and believe in the resurrection, just like the original family member. Each of those in "thy house" have to repent and turn to the Lord and confess Jesus as Lord and believe in His resurrection.

Why would Jesus want laborers for the ripe fields if I could just pray for the field to be "harvested". Field, you are now harvested, grain into the bins, chaff to the chaff pile.

Someway, somehow, the Word and the gospel has to come to a person. Tracts, people, television, and none of this stuff could be produced or brought into existence without someone to make them or produce them. I don't believe Paul would have met the Lord on the road to Damascus unless someone in the church at that time prayed for a someone to cross Paul's path. Jesus answered that request Himself.

Mat 5:44
But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;

Jesus own words.
If Jesus can come to one person, I do believe Jesus can come to another person. Jesus won't do what He told us to do. We can ask for His assistance and I don't doubt that He would oblige our request, and show up.
(The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much.)

Every individual has to confess Jesus as Lord, and believe that God raised Him from the dead before the gift of salvation can be given.

[BarbaraP]

Maybe there is a situation or aspect to this occurring outside of this thread that I am not aware of, and maybe I’m reading wrong, but I didn’t see anyone on this thread say to pray “So-and-so is saved...Shazam!”

It is true that not all will be saved. And it is true that each individual must make that choice for themselves. That part of the teaching is correct. God is not going to “zap” someone and instantly they say “Well lookie there, I woke up a Christian. How did that happen?” Receiving the salvation that is available and already provided is a choice, but that choice does not have to *only* involve some Christian laborer coming across their path.

Seeingboyblake’s original question asked if it was wrong to ask God to touch someone's heart, to show mercy, etc. No. It is not wrong nor is it an invalid prayer. Should you, Seeingboyblake, share the truth with them as well if it is in your power to do so? By all means. But if you fail to present the Gospel to them, that doesn’t necessarily mean the person in question is doomed to hell for all eternity. I believe you already know what you are supposed to do, but just don't know how to go about doing it. Don't worry you will.

If death and life are in the power of the tongue and we can speak healing to someone, we can certainly speak life to that person. The Spirit of God that we release is perfectly capable of influencing events and circumstances (or perhaps physical laborers) in order to reveal Himself to someone so they can make a choice. If the devil or demons can speak lies and suggestions to a person, why wouldn’t the Holy Spirit be able to speak to someone? Does the devil have a voice, yet the Holy Spirit is mute?

Even nature itself proclaims the glory of God so nobody will have an excuse that "they didn't tell me," "No one sowed the word into me."

Romans 1:20, "For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:"

Even if we run the devil off and seven devils come back to a person, those seven devils are still defeated and can be run off just like the first one. If we stand our ground, it is win/win/lose (the only loser being the devil).

Should Christians share the Gospel? Should we pray for other believers to wake up and behave like Him, reaching out with the love that we embody? Can we pray that? Absolutely. No one is disputing that. But that does NOT limit God showing mercy and presenting Himself to them without a physical Christian *HAVING* to be involved. And it is not how we HAVE to pray to be effective.

Even when we pray for laborers, we still must have faith that the laborer will go that direction and not stop off at Starbucks and miss them. God's not going to just grab a hold of a believer and MAKE THEM go talk to my Aunt Matilda any more that He will MAKE Aunt Matilda accept Him.

I have confidence when I pray for someone, for the light of the Gospel to shine unto them, that I don't have to orchestrate the details. Should I throw out Mark 11:23-24 just because someone else may have abused or misrepresented the use of that section of the Word? God forbid! Just like when I pray for someone’s physical healing I do not have to name every single symptom of every single ailment to get them free. I do NOT have to present a blueprint of how the truth must be presented to them. Consequently, sometimes I pray for laborers, sometimes I don’t. Sometimes I just leave it up to the creativity of the Lord to present Himself to that person as He sees fit to reach THEIR heart.

The deciding factor for Saul of Tarsus, it seems to me, was not hearing Steven’s testimony as they laid the coats of those who stoned him at his feet, or all the preaching that was going around. Saul was hell bent on destroying Christians. And nowhere does it confirm or refute that someone prayed, “God, send someone across Saul’s path.” It sure does seem by what actually happened that it was more likely that someone prayed “Lord, let the light of the Gospel shine unto him.” Because boy howdy, the Light sure DID shine! Without a Christian handing him a tract or watching the Good Ol’ Gospel Hour(—again no disrespect intended) he was supernaturally confronted with the Gospel and we know the rest.

I can pray, just as Paul did, that the eyes of peoples’ understanding would be enlightened…that the spiritual forces that have blinded them be removed so that they can see the truth that is evident all around them. That they see the Gospel and the glory of the Lord everywhere they turn…that the evidence of Him keeps springing up. At the same time, I do not neglect the sharing of my faith because it is part of who I am and flows out of me. But, I am fully persuaded that praying for God to touch someone is not limited by a physical Christian talking to them (and AGAIN, I am NOT saying that a physical Christian shouldn’t talk to them).

There have been many times when we have prayed privately for people (not a particular person by face or name) to be drawn to the Bible study at the jail or to where we were that normally wouldn’t come; no way, no how. Several of those times someone (2 of which at the jail had NEVER heard the Gospel or about Jesus or had even seen a Bible) gave their life to the Lord. Yes we were the one who ended up sharing the word with them, but the Holy Spirit drew them (I believe based on our prayer). We didn’t track them down or come across their path. They were drawn to us like a magnet.

My formerly Muslim friend (the one from my last post who had the Lord appear to her in her apartment) would laugh and shake her head at this whole conversation saying, “Why do you Americans debate and complicate something so simple.” I’ve heard her do that before because Westerners in particular complicate the simplicity of, and impose restrictions on the Gospel and the power of God. She is proof that someone (and she is by no means the only one) can be saved and grow in a relationship with the Lord without a some physical person teaching, preaching, leading them in a prayer or presenting the 4 Spiritual Laws. She didn't even get a Bible or fellowship with another Christian for like 2 years or something like that...and no demon and his buddies jumped on her. She supernaturally fellowshipped with the Lord. Now that she does have a Bible (this happened with her at least 9 years ago), she's in the Word all the time.

Do we need laborers? Certainly. Are we to pray for more laborers (and actually reproduce them)? Absolutely…Jesus told us to do so. I can understand cause for concern (and the need to correct) when people just sit around and passively pray, “Lord save so-and-so.” That is definitely not correct. And, it is indeed preferable that all believers live as believers and do the works of Jesus, sharing the Gospel and making disciples fueled from intimate relationship with Him. And that’s why we are all on this forum, right? To learn and to grow…manifesting Him to the world.

Peace out, y'all.

[BradSBer]

How bout some more scripture in context.

-----Our prayers move Heaven. We pray, then God sends angels to hook up situations.
Hebrews 1:14 Are they not all ministering spirits, sent forth to minister for them who shall be heirs of salvation?
According to this verse the angels are sent forth for these very people, the ones who will be heirs of salvation, the ones in need of and those inheriting the multifaceted salvation of God.

-----Many receive not because they ask not. (James 4:2b) No explanation needed.

-----The only place where 'joy in Heaven' is mentioned is when a sinner repents. (Luke 15:7) So are we really to suppose that any prayer for that is wrong or wrong hearted?

-----Lets see what else is prayed for for others, though personal choice is always required for it to take place:
Spirit soul and body be preserved blameless (1 Thess 5:23)
God count you worthy of His calling [and much more] (2 Thess 1:11)
that you do no evil (2 Cor 13:7)


-----And as my final play, the ace up my sleeve - let's see if Paul had any insight...

Philippians 1:19 For I know that this shall turn to my salvation through your prayer, and the supply of the Spirit of Jesus Christ,

Was he talking about born again salvation? no.
But the real question is, what moves God to move?

If anything, our agreeing with His will does.

"I am... come to call... sinners to repentance" Matt 9:13
mmm mmm mmm - something about them red letters...

[danielprice]

One of the most powerful temptations for a Christian is to go by experience - what we percieve with our physical senses, rather than to look to the Word of God (as revealed to us by the Holy Spirit) as the sole source of understanding of the things of God. Too often we (and I include myself in this group) have an experience that seems to bear out a potential revelation of the meaning of scripture(s), and so we assume the potential revelation is accurate without looking further in the Word - because our experience lines up with that potential revelation.

But - scripture has to be taken as a whole; the potential revelation of one scripture (or even several scriptures) must agree with ALL other scriptures. While there do seem to be scriptures that indicate that one can get someone else saved through prayer alone, there are other scriptures that should be considered:

1Co 1:21 For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe. (emphasis added)

2Pe 1:3 According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue: (emphasis added)

Knowledge of God is key to recieving from God. To have knowledge is to know - which indicates relationship.

Joh 17:3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent. (emphasis added)

The essence of salvation is believing:

Joh 3:14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:
Joh 3:15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.
Joh 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. (emphasis added)

Believing is faith:

Rom 10:14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?
Rom 10:15 And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!
Rom 10:16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report?
Rom 10:17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
(emphsis added)

Eph 6:17 And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God:
Eph 6:18 Praying always with all prayer and supplication in the Spirit, and watching thereunto with all perseverance and supplication for all saints;
Eph 6:19 And for me, that utterance may be given unto me, that I may open my mouth boldly, to make known the mystery of the gospel,
Eph 6:20 For which I am an ambassador in bonds: that therein I may speak boldly, as I ought to speak. (emphasis added)

When you find yourself thinking about how someone you know needs to be saved, assume it is the Holy Spirit wanting to preach the gospel to them through you - then find a way to follow through. If they refuse to listen to you, try to find someone else who will speak to them. If they refuse to hear the gospel from anyone, 'pray a laborer across their path' - this gives God a legal right (based on the earthly authority He gave you) to send someone even though the person you're praying about has decided not to listen to anyone.

And remember that your mouth has been bought with a price, so it's His mouth now; and God's Word spoken in faith always produces results:

Isa 55:11 So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it.

[BradSBer]

I thought Barbara made it clear -

No one here is saying that one persons prayer can cause another person to be born again.

Everybody agrees that salvation is a personal choice.

Nobody is saying don't talk to them if you are able.

But if they are in the other part of the world with no phone or email, you are saying you wouldn't pray that God brings someone across their path? Do you pray for the salvation of Israel? Do you pray for people in Africa? Do you really think that Saul/Paul wasn't prayed for and blessed by the disciples when he was attacking and persecuting them? That would mean the disciples were violating direct orders of Jesus.

You don't think that your praying in tongues is ever for others? Or for others, and praying into existence Gods will for others? This is precisely one of the great purposes of tongues -

For something like this, we can quote our Big Brother:
"If you will to do the will of God, then you will know concerning the doctrine" (of whether or not you should praying that others in the world should be saved)

From so many angles it is so clearly evident that praying for the salvation of people is such a worthwhile thing.